#30 - Thomas Seyfried, Ph.D.: Controversial discussion—cancer as a mitochondrial metabolic disease?

Nov 26, 2018 Episode Page ↗
Overview

Professor Tom Seyfried, a cancer researcher, discusses his view of cancer as a mitochondrial metabolic disease. He explores the Warburg effect, the role of glucose and glutamine, and metabolic therapies like ketogenic diets and fasting for cancer and epilepsy.

At a Glance
17 Insights
2h 48m Duration
20 Topics
8 Concepts

Deep Dive Analysis

Introduction to Dr. Tom Seyfried and His Work

Journey from Epilepsy Research to Cancer Metabolism

Ketogenic Diets, Calorie Restriction, and Seizure Management

Insights from Therapeutic Fasting and Starvation Studies

Glucose Spikes and Seizure Breakthroughs

Reintroducing Otto Warburg and the Warburg Effect

The Argument for Defective Mitochondrial Respiration in Cancer

Cancer: A Metabolic Disease vs. a Genetic Disease

Substrate Level Phosphorylation: Warburg's Missing Link

Cardiolipin Defects and ROS Production in Cancer

Selective Starvation of Cancer Cells with Ketogenic Diets

Peter's Near-Death Experience with an Insulin Suppression Test

Glutamine's Role as a Cancer Fuel

The 'Press-Pulse' Metabolic Therapy Strategy

Macrophage Fusion-Hybrid Theory of Metastasis

The Controversial Link Between Biopsies and Metastasis

Glioblastoma Multiforme (GBM) and its Metastatic Potential

A Dream Clinical Trial for Metabolic Cancer Therapy

Anecdotal Cases of GBM Survivors Using Metabolic Therapy

Call for Support and Future Directions in Metabolic Cancer Research

Warburg Effect

The observation that cancer cells continue to perform an ancient fermentation metabolism, producing large amounts of lactic acid, even in the presence of abundant oxygen, unlike normal cells which switch to efficient oxidative respiration.

Pasteur Effect

The phenomenon where yeast and normal cells terminate fermentation and immediately begin respiring as soon as oxygen becomes available in their environment, a fundamental biochemical advancement.

Cancer as a Metabolic Disease

The view that cancer primarily originates from damage to the mitochondrial respiratory system, leading to a compensatory shift to fermentation for energy, rather than being primarily caused by genetic mutations.

Substrate Level Phosphorylation (SLP)

An ancient and less efficient method of ATP production where a phosphate group is directly transferred from an organic substrate to ADP. In cancer cells, it occurs significantly within the mitochondria to compensate for defective oxidative phosphorylation, providing crucial energy.

Cardiolipin

A signature lipid found in the inner mitochondrial membrane. Defects in cardiolipin are observed in tumor cells, impairing the function of electron transport chain proteins and contributing to overall respiratory dysfunction.

Glutaminolysis

The metabolic pathway by which cancer cells consume massive amounts of glutamine. This process provides essential carbon building blocks for rapid cell division and contributes to energy production through anaplerosis in the TCA cycle and substrate level phosphorylation.

Press-Pulse Concept

A therapeutic strategy for cancer involving continuous suppression ('press') of glucose levels through diet and drugs, combined with intermittent, acute suppression ('pulse') of glutamine using drugs, aiming to starve cancer cells while minimizing harm to normal cells.

Macrophage Fusion-Hybrid Theory of Metastasis

The hypothesis that metastatic cancer cells arise from the fusion of neoplastic cells with highly fusogenic macrophages. These hybrid cells acquire the macrophage's invasive and migratory capabilities, enabling them to spread throughout the body, while retaining the neoplastic cell's dysregulated growth and fermentation.

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How do ketogenic diets help manage epilepsy?

Ketogenic diets work largely through calorie restriction, maintaining low blood sugar levels, and elevating ketones. This creates a stable metabolic environment that helps control seizures, with breakthrough seizures often occurring when blood glucose spikes.

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Is respiration normal in cancer cells?

Tom Seyfried argues that the respiratory system in all cancer cells is defective in number, structure, or function, forcing them to ferment. He contends that studies suggesting normal respiration often rely on artificial cell culture conditions that don't reflect in vivo tissue reality.

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Is cancer primarily a metabolic or genetic disease?

Tom Seyfried posits that cancer is primarily a metabolic disease, originating from damage to the mitochondrial respiratory system. He views genetic mutations as secondary effects or 'epiphenomena' resulting from the oxidative stress of damaged mitochondria.

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Where do cancer cells get energy if their respiration is defective?

Cancer cells primarily generate ATP through substrate level phosphorylation (SLP), both in the cytoplasm and, more significantly, within the mitochondria. This ancient energy production method compensates for the impaired oxidative phosphorylation.

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Why is the metabolic view of cancer a minority view today?

The field is largely dominated by molecular biologists who focus on genetic mutations, often overlooking or dismissing evidence of mitochondrial damage and the importance of respiration. This perspective is sometimes reinforced by reliance on cell culture studies that can produce misleading results.

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How do ketogenic diets selectively harm cancer cells while protecting normal cells?

Ketogenic diets lower blood glucose, which cancer cells depend on for fermentation, effectively starving them. Simultaneously, normal cells can adapt to burn ketones for energy, which cancer cells (due to defective mitochondria) cannot utilize, thus creating a competitive metabolic disadvantage for tumors.

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Why is glutamine important for cancer cells?

Cancer cells heavily rely on glutamine as a critical fuel source and for building blocks needed for rapid cell division. It's the most abundant amino acid in the body and is used for nucleotide synthesis and anaplerosis in the TCA cycle.

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How does metastasis occur according to the metabolic theory?

Metastasis can occur through the fusion of neoplastic cells with macrophages, which are highly mobile immune cells. This fusion creates hybrid cells that acquire the macrophage's invasive and migratory capabilities, allowing them to spread throughout the body.

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Why does Tom Seyfried believe radiation and steroids are problematic in GBM treatment?

Radiation can free up massive amounts of glutamine by breaking the glutamine-glutamate cycle, which fuels tumor cells. Corticosteroids, used to reduce edema, can elevate blood sugar. Both actions counteract metabolic therapy efforts and can potentially accelerate patient demise by providing fuel for cancer growth.

1. Implement Press Pulse Cancer Therapy

Adopt a ‘press pulse’ strategy for cancer by constantly reducing glucose (via diet/drugs) and periodically reducing glutamine (via drugs). This aims to starve tumor cells of their fermentable fuels while protecting normal cells.

2. Achieve Therapeutic Ketosis for Cancer

Maintain a glucose-ketone index (GKI) of 1.0 or below by significantly lowering blood sugar and elevating ketones through diet and supplementation. This creates a selective metabolic disadvantage for tumor cells and enables other targeted therapies.

3. Avoid Brain Radiation Therapy

Refrain from using radiation therapy for glioblastoma (GBM) patients, as it can cause radiation necrosis, elevate blood sugar, and release glutamine. These effects may worsen patient outcomes and quality of life.

4. Consider Hyperbaric Oxygen in Ketosis

Utilize hyperbaric oxygen as a pulse therapy (e.g., 2.5 atmospheres for 90 minutes daily) to create oxidative stress specifically in tumor cells. This should only be done when the patient is in therapeutic ketosis.

5. Strategically Target Glutamine for Cancer

Use glutamine-blocking drugs (e.g., Don, 6-norleucine) in a pulsed manner to deprive tumor cells of this essential fuel. This strategy must be carefully managed to avoid compromising the normal immune system and gut health.

6. Optimize Surgery Timing for Cancer

Delay surgical debulking until metabolic therapy has shrunk the tumor, reduced inflammation, and made its margins more defined. This approach aims for a more complete and potentially curative resection.

7. Integrate Stress Management in Cancer

Implement stress-reducing practices like music therapy and yoga to lower corticosteroids, which can otherwise hinder blood sugar control and the effectiveness of metabolic therapies. Inform patients that stress reduction helps the treatment work.

8. Use Insulin Therapy with Ketosis

Administer insulin therapy to further lower blood sugar, but only when the patient is already in a state of therapeutic ketosis. This ensures glucose reduction without stimulating tumor growth, which insulin can do with high glucose.

9. Prevent Cancer via Mitochondria Health

Maintain mitochondrial health by avoiding known risk factors such as viral infections, intermittent hypoxia, radiation exposure, and exposure to carcinogens. Healthy mitochondria are crucial for preventing cancer.

10. Exercise Caution with Biopsies

Be aware that needle biopsies, while diagnostic, may potentially create an aggressive inflammatory environment that could facilitate tumor spread or metastasis. Consider the risks versus the diagnostic benefits.

11. Avoid Avastin for Cancer

Do not use Avastin (bevacizumab) for cancer treatment, particularly for breast and brain cancers. This anti-angiogenic drug has been shown to harm more patients than it helps and can promote invasive tumor behavior.

12. Maintain Low Blood Sugar for Seizures

For epilepsy management, keep blood sugar levels consistently low (e.g., 65-70 mg/dL) and avoid spikes (e.g., to 120 mg/dL). Even slight elevations can trigger breakthrough seizures.

13. Practice Healthy Calorie Restriction

Engage in calorie restriction for health benefits, but ensure it does not lead to muscle breakdown. Breaking down muscle indicates entering a pathological starvation mode that should be avoided.

14. Avoid Yo-Yo Dieting

Refrain from chronic yo-yo dieting, as it can have long-term detrimental effects on physiological systems. The body’s ’thrifty physiology’ can be negatively impacted.

15. Support Metabolic Cancer Research

Contribute financially to foundations (e.g., Single Cause Single Cure Foundation, Travis Foundation, Metabolic Therapy Foundation) or directly to university labs (with specific funding statements) to advance research in metabolic cancer therapies.

16. Advocate for Metabolic Clinical Trials

Support and advocate for clinical trials that rigorously test metabolic therapies for cancer, especially as a primary treatment or in combination with minimal conventional treatments, to challenge existing standards of care.

17. Utilize Podcast Learning Strategies

If struggling with technical concepts in a podcast, pause, review show notes, use external resources like Wikipedia, or reach out via social media for clarification. Do not continue listening without understanding key concepts.

Cancer cells continue to do an ancient fermentation metabolism, even in the presence of oxygen.

Tom Seyfried (attributing Otto Warburg)

The real issue is the damage to the respiration.

Tom Seyfried (attributing Otto Warburg)

You don't get cancer if your mitochondria remain healthy.

Tom Seyfried

The singular most largest consumer of energy in any cell is the pumps.

Tom Seyfried

The standard of care should never have been written in granite. It should be flexible.

Tom Seyfried

First, do no harm. I mean, you couldn't do any good if you weren't at least willing to do some harm.

Peter Attia

Press-Pulse Metabolic Therapy for Cancer (Dream Clinical Trial Design)

Tom Seyfried
  1. Gradually lower blood sugar and elevate ketones to achieve therapeutic ketosis (Glucose-Ketone Index close to 1.0 or below).
  2. Implement stress management techniques such as music therapy and yoga therapy to reduce emotional stress.
  3. Utilize insulin therapy to further lower blood sugars, but only when the patient is already in therapeutic ketosis.
  4. Administer hyperbaric oxygen therapy (2.5 atmospheres for 90 minutes daily) as a pulse therapy, specifically when the patient is in therapeutic ketosis.
  5. Pulse with drugs that target glutamine (e.g., 6-norleucine) to acutely reduce its availability to tumor cells without chronically depriving normal immune and gut systems.
  6. Perform surgery at a midpoint when the tumor has significantly shrunk, is less inflamed, and its margins are more sharply defined, making it amenable to complete debulking.
35-40%
Calorie restriction in mice equivalent to human water-only fasting Restriction of calories in mice equates to a water-only therapeutic fasting in humans due to higher metabolism.
1 day
Mouse fasting duration equivalent to human fasting A one-day water-only fast in a mouse is like a seven-day water-only fast in a human.
68 to 90 days
Survival duration of Bobby Sands and other prisoners during protest fast Average time without any food (just water) for young Irishmen in May's prison.
250 pounds
Weight loss of an obese postman on water-only fasting Achieved over 6-8 months of water-only fasting under medical supervision.
120 mg/dL
Glucose level spike causing breakthrough seizures A spike from a low baseline (e.g., 65-70 mg/dL) to 120 mg/dL can trigger a breakthrough seizure in epileptic children on ketogenic diets.
5-6%
Percentage of cancers arising from germline mutations These are inherited risk factors like BRCA1/2, but are not 100% penetrant.
31 mg/dL
Peter Attia's lowest blood glucose during insulin suppression test Experienced while on a ketogenic diet, leading to near-unconsciousness.
Over 100
Number of scientific articles on extracranial glioblastoma metastasis Reports of GBM metastasizing to organs like bone and liver, often unnoticed due to short patient survival.
Over 1600 people
Daily cancer deaths in the United States Reflects a significant and tragic mortality rate.
8100 people
Daily cancer deaths in China Cancer has surpassed heart disease as a cause of death in China.
2.5 atmospheres for 90 minutes
Hyperbaric oxygen therapy parameters Administered daily as a pulse therapy to create oxidative stress in tumor cells.