#44 - Jeremy Schaap, ESPN journalist: upsets, doping, triumphs, and the importance of sports
In this episode, preeminent ESPN journalist Jeremy Schaap discusses boxing upsets (Cinderella Man, 42 to 1), his Bobby Knight interview, doping scandals, and the deeper meaning of sports, including its role in societal issues.
Deep Dive Analysis
18 Topic Outline
Shared Obsession with Boxing History
James Braddock's Incredible Upset of Max Baer
Joe Louis's Rise and Braddock's Legacy
Buster Douglas's Historic Upset of Mike Tyson
Analyzing Tyson's Invincibility and Douglas's Performance
Contrasting Boxing Styles: Destroyers vs. Artists
Mike Tyson's Perspective on the Douglas Fight
Buster Douglas's Post-Victory Challenges and Motivation
Ranking All-Time Great Heavyweight Boxers
Jeremy Schaap's Famous Bobby Knight Interview
Navigating a Career in the Shadow of a Legendary Father
The Importance of Fairness and Empathy in Journalism
Coping with a Father's Unexpected Death and 9/11
The Deeper Meaning and Societal Role of Sports
Regrets in Reporting: The 1998 Home Run Chase
Doping Scandals in Cycling and Baseball
The Biggest Underreported Stories in Sports
Final Thoughts on the Enduring Appeal of Sports
5 Key Concepts
Boxing Aura
The psychological dominance a boxer projects, making opponents feel defeated before the fight begins. Mike Tyson possessed an aura so strong that many opponents were beaten mentally, not just physically, before stepping into the ring.
Destroyer vs. Artist Boxers
A distinction between boxers who rely on brute force and knockout power (destroyers like Dempsey, Liston, Tyson) versus those who utilize diverse skills, strategy, and endurance (artists like Ali, Lewis). Destroyers, while formidable, often have shorter, more volatile careers due to their reliance on a single dimension.
Fair Journalism
A journalistic approach that involves asking tough, probing questions without shying away from uncomfortable truths, but also maintaining empathy for the subject. It emphasizes being fair to the subject, the audience, the story, and the truth, rather than being antagonistic for its own sake.
Sports as Lingua Franca
The idea that sports serve as a universal language or common ground for discussion among people from diverse backgrounds. In a world where other topics like religion or politics can be divisive, sports often provide a shared, accessible, and engaging subject for conversation.
Sports as Societal Vanguard
The concept that sports often reflect and even drive broader societal changes and discussions. Major moments in sports, such as Jackie Robinson breaking the color line or Muhammad Ali's refusal of induction, have served as pivotal points in civil rights and social justice movements, highlighting issues before they fully permeate other areas of society.
10 Questions Answered
Braddock, a former light heavyweight contender, was broke and on welfare during the Great Depression, having broken his hand. He built incredible strength working on the docks and, against all odds (8-10 to 1), defeated the seemingly invincible heavyweight champion Max Baer, fighting for his family's survival.
Douglas defeated Mike Tyson, who was then 37-0 with 34 knockouts and considered invincible, at 42-1 odds. Douglas delivered an epic performance, dominating the fight just 22 days after his mother's death, providing the blueprint for future Tyson opponents.
Tyson acknowledged that Douglas was a better fighter that specific afternoon, but maintained that Douglas was not a superior fighter overall. He attributed his loss to living his life 'too fast' and doing 'crazy stuff,' implying a lack of full commitment to the fight.
After his victory, Douglas faced immense chaos, including legal battles with Don King and internal camp disputes. He lost motivation, and the emotional toll of his mother's death, combined with the pressure of being the highest-paid athlete at the time, led him to show up physically and mentally unprepared for his fight against Evander Holyfield.
Schaap grew up immersed in his father's world of sports journalism, seeing it as an apprenticeship. He didn't initially consider the shadow or comparisons, focusing on his passion for media, writing, and TV, eventually choosing sports despite the direct comparison to his father's acclaimed career.
Amidst the national calamity and his father's critical medical condition, Schaap had discussions about the potential insignificance of sports. While he didn't reassess his personal career path, he did react against the idea that sports could provide complete catharsis for such a profound national tragedy, viewing it as a temporary relief.
Sports serve as a 'lingua franca,' bringing people together for discussions across cultural and national divides when other topics are too sensitive. It also provides a platform to tell stories about broader societal issues like civil rights, sexual abuse, and equality, often acting as a vanguard for social change.
Schaap regrets not approaching the 1998 home run chase with Mark McGwire with more skepticism regarding steroid use. He acknowledges that the entire national media was swept up in the moment and failed to dig deep enough into the widespread doping, leading to a 'fake' and 'stolen' legacy for records like Roger Maris's 61 home runs.
The effectiveness and detectability of performance-enhancing drugs vary. While drugs like human growth hormone are highly effective and currently undetectable, making them a drug of choice in many sports, the specific culture, testing protocols, and enforcement in different sports (e.g., swimming vs. track and field) contribute to perceived differences in cleanliness.
The long-term effects of head trauma, particularly in tackle football, remain a significant and ongoing story. While it is covered, its full impact on youth participation and the potential existential threat to college and professional football in the long term is still unfolding and not fully understood.
14 Actionable Insights
1. Harness Adversity for Strength
Engage in difficult, unconventional work or face personal setbacks, as these experiences can build unexpected strengths and prepare you to seize critical opportunities, much like Braddock’s dock work strengthened his hand for his comeback.
2. Fight for a Greater Purpose
Identify and fight for something much larger than yourself, such as family, honor, or a deeply held belief, as this provides immense motivation and resilience when facing seemingly insurmountable odds, exemplified by Braddock’s fight for his family.
3. Cultivate Total Commitment & Courage
Embrace a personal code of courage, dedication, and total commitment, especially when facing overwhelming challenges, and refuse to quit even when others suggest it, embodying the ethos of fighters like Jim Braddock.
4. Overcome Fear to Defeat Intimidation
To defeat an intimidating opponent or challenge, you must first overcome your own fear and not be mentally defeated before the engagement, as illustrated by Buster Douglas’s ability to face Mike Tyson without being ‘beat before he got in the ring’.
5. Diversify Skills, Avoid One-Dimensionality
Avoid relying solely on one strength or ‘falling in love with your knockout punch,’ as this can lead to laziness, one-dimensionality, and eventual exposure; instead, continuously develop and diversify your skills.
6. Embrace Setbacks as Foundations
View setbacks or ‘blemishes’ in your career not as permanent failures, but as opportunities to build a different, potentially more resilient and enduring kind of success and reputation, as Joe Louis did after his loss to Schmeling.
7. Practice Empathetic, Truth-Seeking Journalism
When engaging in journalism or any form of critical communication, ask tough questions and probe uncomfortable areas, but always do so with empathy, striving to understand the subject’s perspective and prioritizing truth over antagonism.
8. Maintain Skepticism in Exciting Moments
Approach stories or information with a critical and skeptical mindset, even when caught up in exciting or widely celebrated moments, to avoid being misled or accepting narratives at face value, as Jeremy Schaap regretted not doing during the Mark McGuire home run chase.
9. Beware of Sudden Success’s Pitfalls
Be cautious of the chaos and external pressures that can accompany sudden, immense success, as these factors can diminish focus and motivation, leading to a decline in performance, as seen in Buster Douglas’s career after beating Tyson.
10. Acknowledge and Relate to Fear
Recognize that fear is a natural and often present emotion in high-stakes endeavors; developing a relationship with this fear, rather than denying it, is crucial for performance, as even Mike Tyson acknowledged.
11. Leverage Shared Interests for Discussions
Utilize widespread interests like sports as a platform or ’lingua franca’ to initiate and discuss broader societal, cultural, and ethical issues, as these common grounds can connect people and draw attention to important topics.
12. Encourage Activities for Self-Discovery
Encourage participation in challenging activities like sports for the invaluable lessons about oneself, resilience, and character development, rather than solely for the pursuit of professional aspirations.
13. Anticipate Constant Change
Understand that everything changes and nothing remains dominant indefinitely; avoid assuming current trends will last forever and acknowledge the inherent unpredictability of the future, as ’no one can see the future’.
14. Skepticism Towards ‘Clean’ Athletes
In sports known for performance-enhancing drugs, especially those with undetectable substances like human growth hormone, maintain a healthy skepticism about claims of athletes being ‘clean,’ as the true extent of doping is often unknown.
6 Key Quotes
If you throw in the towel, never talk to you again.
James J. Braddock
Look, was Buster Douglas a better fighter that morning, that afternoon? Yes. Does that mean that he's a better fighter than me? No.
Mike Tyson
Be careful here. You've got a long way to go until you're as good as your dad.
Bobby Knight
If I'm going to get executed, you're going to have to pay a lot more than $35 to see it.
Max Baer
The flames that burn this bright burn out really quick.
Sports Illustrated Author (referencing Mike Tyson)
Anybody who gets in a boxing ring and who is not scared senseless is lying or crazy.
Mike Tyson