#57 – Rick Rubin, legendary music producer: collaborating with sensitive psyche of greatest living musicians, and his personal story of weight loss and spiritual quest
Rick Rubin, legendary music producer, discusses his journey from co-founding Def Jam to working with iconic artists. He shares insights on supporting creative genius through struggles like addiction, and his personal health transformation from depression and obesity to recovering from emergency heart surgery.
Deep Dive Analysis
16 Topic Outline
Early Career and the Birth of Hip Hop
Founding Def Jam Records and Early Success
Revolutionary Impact of LL Cool J and Beastie Boys
Parting Ways with Def Jam and Columbia Records
Starting American Recordings and New Musical Directions
Working with Red Hot Chili Peppers and Music's Poetic Nature
Prevalence of Drug Use and Emotional Pain in Musicians
Rick's Battle with Crippling Depression
Coping with the Deaths of Artists He Worked With
Working with Johnny Cash and His Later Career
The Digital Age of Music: Loss and Gain
Rick's Personal Health Journey and Obesity Struggle
Radical Weight Loss and Physical Transformation
Emergency Heart Surgery and Health Scare
Lessons Learned from Heart Condition and Surgery
Life Lessons Rick Wishes to Impart on His Son
4 Key Concepts
Bicuspid Aortic Valve
A congenital heart condition where the aortic valve, which normally has three leaflets, is born with only two. This structural difference makes the valve more prone to calcification and stenosis over time.
Aortic Stenosis
A condition where the aortic valve becomes progressively harder to open due to calcification, causing the heart's left ventricle to pump against greater resistance. This leads to the heart muscle thickening and can impede blood outflow.
Aortic Root Dilation
An enlargement of the aortic root, which is the initial segment of the aorta. This condition often accompanies aortic stenosis and carries a significant risk of sudden dissection, a life-threatening tear in the aorta.
Circulatory Arrest
A surgical technique used in complex heart operations, such as aortic root repair, where blood flow to the entire body, including the brain, is temporarily stopped. Special cannulation is used to maintain brain perfusion during this period.
8 Questions Answered
The first singles Rick Rubin produced for LL Cool J probably cost between $300 to $500 to record and make.
The fact that the Beastie Boys were white played a significant role in helping the underground Black music genre of hip hop deeply penetrate into the rest of the country beyond New York City.
Musicians tend to be very sensitive souls, often feeling things more intensely than others, which can be painful and lead to self-medication as they try to find a way to exist in a world where they feel they don't fit.
A phone call with a new record company chairman, who expressed jealousy over Rick's deal and a lack of interest in supporting his artists, triggered a profound vulnerability in Rick that he had never experienced before.
The gravity of Johnny Cash, at 70 years old, singing about a life filled with regret, gave the song a shocking reality and different weight compared to when a younger artist sang it, due to the profound impact of age on understanding those words.
While the experience of getting new music is less special due to the loss of physical albums and anticipation, the frictionless system allows listeners to access anything they want, anytime, which is also a great benefit.
Rick was terrified and spent the six weeks leading up to his emergency heart surgery in a state of horror and anticipation, struggling with his aversion to medical intervention and second-guessing the decision.
He learned that as humans, we can handle much more than we think, realizing that facing a life-threatening surgery was a different kind of challenge than physical training, requiring sheer presence and endurance.
48 Actionable Insights
1. Prioritize Artistry, Trust Commerce Follows
Focus solely on perfecting the art itself, avoiding overthinking commercial outcomes or external opinions, as true artistic quality will naturally lead to commercial success.
2. Embrace Long-Term Creative Incubation
Allow creative ideas to incubate over a long period, only moving forward with a specific piece when it feels fully formed, rather than rushing to produce a large volume of material.
3. Optimize Circadian Rhythm for Vitality
Prioritize aligning your work and sleep schedule with natural circadian rhythms (e.g., working during the day, sleeping at night) to significantly improve overall health and vitality.
4. Implement Structured Calorie & Protein Diet
For significant weight loss, follow a precisely calculated calorie-restricted diet focused on high protein and low carbs, with frequent protein shakes and a light dinner.
5. Integrate Mental & Physical Challenge
Seek out exercise routines that are as mentally challenging as they are physically demanding, such as balance-focused or multi-tasking movements, to enhance focus and engagement.
6. Utilize Extreme Environments for Meditation
Engage in extreme environments like saunas or ice baths to induce a ‘forced meditation’ state, where the preoccupation with survival helps quiet the mind and fosters deep presence and focus.
7. Lead by Example in Parenting
Understand that the most profound lessons for children are imparted through the demonstration of a loving relationship and a caring household, rather than just verbal instruction.
8. Balance Hard Work with Fun
Embrace hard work as a fulfilling commitment, but consciously balance it with having fun, avoiding a workaholic mindset to live a more well-rounded life.
9. Employ Multi-Modal Therapy for Depression
When dealing with depression, consider a comprehensive approach including psychiatrists, psychologists, acupuncture, herbal remedies, massage, and dietary changes to support brain chemistry.
10. Deplete Glycogen for Weight Loss
To effectively lose weight, focus on depleting glycogen stores in the liver and muscles through a combination of exercise and calorie restriction, with particular emphasis on carbohydrate restriction.
11. Advocate for Non-Opiate Pain Management
For post-operative pain, advocate for a comprehensive non-opiate pain management plan, including epidurals, NSAIDs, and Tylenol, to minimize opiate use and its associated risks.
12. Re-evaluate Dietary Assumptions for Health
Be open to re-evaluating long-held dietary beliefs, even those considered ‘healthy’ (like veganism), if they are not producing desired health outcomes, such as weight management.
13. Seek Mentorship from Inspiring Role Models
When confronted with seemingly impossible feats, seek out the methods and mentors of those who achieve them, to learn and apply their strategies to your own life.
14. Foster Creative Collaboration Through Play
Engage in playful, social activities with collaborators, like trying to make each other laugh, to organically generate creative ideas and material.
15. Apply Traditional Structures to New Forms
Experiment with applying traditional structures, like song structure (verse-chorus), to new or unconventional art forms to potentially enhance their appeal and accessibility.
16. Prioritize Artistic Integrity Over Business
Be willing to walk away from established success and financial gain if a partnership or business structure compromises your artistic vision or the well-being of the artists.
17. Re-evaluate and Rebuild Suboptimal Frameworks
If an existing framework for your work is not optimal, be prepared to immediately dismantle it and build a new one that better supports your goals.
18. Cultivate Empathy for Sensitive Souls
Recognize that highly creative individuals often possess extreme sensitivity, which can be both a source of their genius and a challenge for navigating life, fostering greater empathy for their struggles.
19. Seek Help for Crippling Depression
If experiencing crippling depression, understand that it can be a long process (e.g., two years) to navigate, and seeking professional help is crucial.
20. Adapt Work to Mental Health Needs
During periods of severe mental health challenges, adapt your work methods (e.g., working from bed, in ‘windows’) to continue contributing while prioritizing recovery.
21. Persevere in Finding Right Medication
If medication is deemed necessary for mental health, be prepared for a trial-and-error process, as finding the right drug can take time and multiple attempts.
22. Cultivate Empathy from Vulnerability
Understand that experiencing profound vulnerability and personal struggles can lead to a deeper, more profound sense of empathy for others.
23. Maintain Purpose Through Consistent Work
In times of profound grief or loss, maintain a rigorous work schedule and consistent engagement with your craft, as it can provide a vital reason to continue living.
24. Engage Actively with Poetic Art Forms
Actively engage with poetic art forms like music and books, allowing your imagination to create personal mental images and narratives that can evolve and deepen over time.
25. Revisit Art with Evolving Perspective
Revisit and re-experience art, especially music, at different stages of life, as your age and accumulated experiences will profoundly change your understanding and emotional connection to the work.
26. Cultivate Mindful Listening
Practice mindful listening by ensuring you are in the right frame of mind, present, and open when evaluating new music or art, preventing your internal state from unfairly influencing your perception.
27. Address Generational Shame, Body Image
Recognize and address generational shame and negative body image issues, as these can profoundly impact one’s relationship with weight and self-perception from childhood.
28. Implement Zone 2 Cardio with Monitor
Use a heart rate monitor to practice consistent, low-intensity (Zone 2) cardio, starting with short durations and gradually increasing to an hour, to improve cardiovascular health and metabolic function.
29. Persist Despite Slow Progress
If following a health protocol diligently yields minimal physical changes (e.g., only 5 lbs lost in two years), persist with the beneficial habits while recognizing deeper, underlying issues may be at play.
30. Reintroduce Key Nutrients as ‘Medicine’
When reintroducing essential foods (like fish and eggs) that you dislike, think of them as necessary medicine and find creative ways to mask their taste to ensure consumption.
31. Use Frequent Protein to Manage Hunger
Consume protein shakes frequently (e.g., every two hours) throughout the day to maintain satiety and prevent hunger, especially during calorie-restricted diets.
32. Savor Restricted Foods Mindfully
When on a restrictive diet, mindfully savor the limited ’treat’ foods you allow yourself, enhancing appreciation and satisfaction.
33. Adopt a ‘Haven’t Done It Yet’ Mindset
When facing a physical challenge, adopt a mindset of ‘I haven’t done it yet’ instead of ‘I can’t do it,’ fostering a growth-oriented approach to overcoming limitations.
34. Innovate Exercise with Creative Constraints
Experiment with creative constraints in exercise, like using lighter weights underwater for breath-hold jumps, to discover new forms of training that integrate physical and mental discipline.
35. Embrace Novelty and Problem-Solving
Approach training and challenges with a problem-solving mindset, seeking out novel methods and figuring out how to achieve what hasn’t been done before, rather than solely relying on established routines.
36. Use Exercise to Enhance Life Vitality
Engage in consistent exercise not just for physical health, but as a means to feel more ‘alive’ and engaged in all aspects of life, extending vitality beyond specific work domains.
37. Request Non-Dextrose IV Fluids Post-Op
If undergoing surgery and accustomed to a low-carb diet, request non-dextrose intravenous solutions (e.g., lactated ringers) to avoid a metabolic shock from sugar and support recovery.
38. Embrace Human Resilience
Recognize and embrace the inherent capacity of humans to handle significantly more adversity and challenge than they initially believe, fostering a sense of inner strength.
39. Optimize Performance, Health, Longevity
Cultivate a hunger for optimizing performance, health, longevity, and critical thinking to live a higher quality, more fulfilling life.
40. Seek Information for Better Decisions
Actively seek out and access information, as it is crucial for making better decisions and improving the quality of your life.
41. Support Content You Value
If you value the content being produced, consider becoming a member and supporting the creators through a subscriber model to ensure its continued production and maintain an honest relationship.
42. Pursue Enjoyable Creative Endeavors
Engage in creative activities you enjoy, like recording music with a band, as this can be a fulfilling first step into a professional path.
43. Seek Out Niche Cultural Scenes
Actively seek out small, underground clubs or venues dedicated to emerging or niche cultural movements to experience authentic and groundbreaking art forms.
44. Develop Strong Lyrical Ability
Focus on developing a great vocabulary and command of language in your creative expression, ensuring your presentation is believable and authentic.
45. Start Creative Projects with Minimal Resources
Begin creative projects with very little money, as it’s possible to produce impactful work with minimal financial investment, focusing on the art itself.
46. Focus on Sustainability in Creative Ventures
For creative projects, prioritize selling enough to fund the next project rather than immediate profitability, allowing the art to sustain itself.
47. Recognize Value of High Barriers
Understand that high barriers to entry in creative fields can lead to a higher signal-to-noise ratio and potentially higher quality output, as only the most skilled or dedicated can succeed.
48. Acknowledge Profound Life Changes
Recognize that single, seemingly minor events can profoundly alter one’s sense of self and vulnerability, leading to a permanent shift in perspective.
5 Key Quotes
If you get the art right, the commerce side of it works itself out.
Rick Rubin
I would say that from leaving that meeting with you until the moment the surgery happened, those were the most difficult, probably six weeks of my life. Terrified.
Rick Rubin
As humans, we can really handle much more than we think.
Rick Rubin
The poetic nature of it that allows, it's like, if you, it's harder for that to happen when you see a movie, a movie is more face value. That's right. It takes, it takes some of the imagination away. Whereas books and music, the, the reader or the listener is making the mental images that you associate with it.
Rick Rubin
Musicians who make music tend to be very sensitive. If you think of Kurt Cobain as a raw nerve, he's going through this world, feeling things that other people who have the same experiences don't feel. It's painful.
Rick Rubin
3 Protocols
Rick Rubin's Initial Health & Weight Management (Phil Maffetone)
Rick Rubin (describing Phil Maffetone's recommendations)- Use a heart rate monitor to track exertion during physical activity.
- Begin walking at a target heart rate for 10 minutes, gradually increasing duration to an hour.
- Progress to walking up and down three flights of stairs, consistently maintaining the target heart rate.
- Adopt a diet that eliminates all carbohydrates (while maintaining a vegan lifestyle).
- Introduce fish and eggs into the diet as 'medicine,' often masked in other foods like a blueberry shake with three whole eggs, or mild white fish like sea bass and halibut.
Rick Rubin's Radical Weight Loss Protocol (Dr. Heber)
Rick Rubin (describing Dr. Heber's recommendations)- Adhere to a strict 1,400-calorie per day diet.
- Consume six or seven protein shakes (made from J Rob egg protein powder and water, 120 calories each) every two hours throughout the day.
- Eat a light, low-carb dinner consisting of fish, soup, and salad, spreading the meal out through the evening.
- Allow for one piece of fruit (e.g., an apple) per day, understanding it might slightly slow down weight loss progress.
Laird Hamilton's Underwater Pool Training (Rick Rubin's description)
Rick Rubin (describing Laird Hamilton's training methods)- Carry heavy weights (e.g., 40-50 lb dumbbells) from the shallow end to the deep end of a 14-foot pool.
- In the deep end, leave the heavy weights, swim up for air, then swim down to perform as many curls as possible underwater while holding your breath.
- Repeat the process for shoulder presses.
- Progress to using lighter weights (e.g., 10 lb dumbbells) that are heavy enough to hold you down but light enough to allow surfacing for air while holding them.
- Perform jumps and backflips underwater, taking one breath per move, evolving into a yoga-like practice with various exercises.