How To Talk To Children About Race with Dr Pragya Agarwal #165

Mar 17, 2021 Episode Page ↗
Overview

Dr. Pragya Agarwal, a behavioural scientist, discusses how to talk about bias, discrimination, and race with children. The conversation emphasizes proactive discussions, why colorblindness is unhelpful, and how to foster empathy and allyship in children of all backgrounds.

At a Glance
43 Insights
1h 38m Duration
18 Topics
9 Concepts

Deep Dive Analysis

The Importance of Discussing Bias, Discrimination, and Race

Challenges of a 'Colorblind' Approach to Race

Impact of Witnessing Racism on Children's Well-being

The Role of White Parents in Discussing Race and Privilege

Navigating Personal Experiences of Perceived Racial Bias

The Emotional Toll of Systemic Bias and Discrimination

Defining Bias and Race as a Social Construct

Early Childhood Perceptions of Skin Color and Whiteness

Starting Race Conversations Early: Age and Context

Addressing Children's Curiosity About Skin Color

Bias as an Evolutionary Trait vs. Modern Harm

Countering Divisive Online Content and Social Pressures

Overcoming Discomfort and 'White Guilt' in Discussions

Navigating Terminology: 'People of Color' vs. Other Terms

Understanding and Explaining White Privilege

Racism and Discrimination in Non-White Societies

The Power of Representation and Role Models

Practical Steps for Parents to Discuss Race with Children

Colorblind Approach

This approach involves ignoring differences in race or skin color, often with the intention of promoting equality. However, it is not considered the best way because children still notice differences and pick up messages from media and books that can form hierarchies and stereotypes in their brains, even if not explicitly discussed.

Transductive Reasoning

A type of reasoning children use where they make generalized assumptions. For example, if they see one person of a certain skin color acting in a particular way or facing racism, they might assume all people from that race or ethnicity act similarly.

Bias (General)

A preference for some things, which can be positive (like parental bias towards one's own children or affinity for a shared university) or negative. When bias leads to prejudice or negative discrimination against a group considered 'other,' it becomes toxic and harmful.

Race as a Social Construct

Race has no biological basis, as humans share 99.9% similar genes. It was created as a construct historically to justify the oppression of certain people by claiming those with specific biology or skin color were less intelligent or capable.

Racialization

The process by which racialized hierarchies are built, leading to notions of who has more power in society. This contributes to the belief that 'whiteness is better' and influences how people are perceived and treated.

White Supremacy

A belief system where whiteness is considered superior. This permeates society, leading children as young as three to prefer white or fair-skinned dolls, reflecting what they observe in media, books, and cartoons where white characters are often portrayed more positively.

Internalized Racism

A phenomenon where individuals from minority ethnic communities may adopt the belief that they need to behave in a certain way to gain more power in society, sometimes leading to discrimination against people of their own skin color or community.

Colourism

A form of bias and discrimination prevalent in many communities, particularly South Asian, where fair skin is considered better, more desirable, and associated with greater opportunities and beauty, often leading to shame for those with darker skin.

Intersectionality of Privilege

The concept that privileges are not singular but intersect based on various factors like race, gender, class, caste, or education. For example, a white working-class person does not have the same privileges as a white middle-class person, and white privilege is just one form among many.

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Why is ignoring racial differences (a 'colorblind' approach) not helpful for children?

Children naturally notice skin color and other differences, and they absorb messages from media and society that can form biases and stereotypes. If parents don't talk about race explicitly, children will form their own potentially problematic views and may even feel shame about their own heritage to fit in.

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What are the negative effects of children witnessing racism, even if it's not directed at them?

Research from organizations like the American Association of Psychology and Pediatrics shows that children who are bystanders to racism or witness it in media can experience significant detrimental effects on their mental and physical well-being.

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Why should white parents proactively discuss race and privilege with their children?

It helps their children understand why some people are treated differently, supports their mental well-being if they witness racism, and teaches them to leverage their own privileges to be allies. It also aims to stop the cycle of inequality by making them aware of their power to create a fair world.

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At what age is it appropriate to start talking to children about race?

Parents should start very young, as children are like sponges picking up implicit messages. Black and brown parents often start earlier due to anxieties about their children facing racism, but it's crucial for all children to begin early to form a secure sense of identity and understanding of others.

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How should parents respond when a child points out someone's different skin color?

Instead of shushing them or showing discomfort, parents should use it as a teachable moment. They can acknowledge the observation and explain that everyone has different skin, eye, or hair colors, which makes them unique and special, potentially engaging with the person or using diverse books as examples.

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Is bias an inherent part of human nature, and can it be overcome?

While there's an evolutionary basis for creating in-groups and out-groups for safety and resource competition in the distant past, modern society is different. Today, these biases can have toxic effects, and we must actively counter them to prevent divides and harm.

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How can parents help children navigate the divisive views and pressures from social media and the internet?

Parents need to have honest and open conversations at home to counter the radicalizing and divisive opinions children are exposed to online. This helps children develop critical thinking and resilience against harmful external pressures.

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What is 'white privilege,' and why is it a challenging term for some?

White privilege means that white individuals are protected from racism as a barrier in predominantly white societies, and they don't have to constantly worry about racism or microaggressions. It's often misunderstood as denying that white people face any barriers, but it specifically refers to not facing racial barriers. It's a challenging term because it can make some people defensive or feel guilty.

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Do the tools for discussing race apply to non-white-dominant societies?

Yes, while the specific context may differ, the tools are relevant. Non-white-dominant societies also have forms of bias and discrimination, such as colourism (preference for fair skin) and caste hierarchies, which need to be addressed within those communities.

1. Reflect on Personal Discomfort

As parents, critically reflect on and question your own discomfort and biases surrounding topics of race, as this self-awareness is crucial for engaging in effective conversations with your children.

2. Unlearn Bias, Diversify Media

Actively unlearn your own biases, ensure children are exposed to diverse books and media that shatter stereotypes, and challenge any assumptions or stereotypes they form from a very young age.

3. Proactively Discuss Race with Kids

Engage in proactive conversations about race, discrimination, and bias with children, regardless of their skin color, to prepare them for a diverse world and mitigate the adverse effects of witnessing racism.

4. Avoid Colorblind Approach

Do not adopt a ‘colorblind’ approach with children, as they naturally notice skin color differences; instead, acknowledge these differences to prevent them from forming problematic conclusions or stereotypes independently.

5. Cultivate Empathy and Allyship

Guide children to be comfortably curious and non-judgmental about differences, teaching them to recognize and address unfairness while promoting empathy and allyship over shame and guilt.

6. Teach Difference, Not Inequality

Educate children that while differences exist, they should not be the foundation for inequality; also, help them understand the historical legacy of oppression that has led to differential treatment for certain groups.

7. Leverage Privilege for Allyship

Talk to children about privilege and power, including concepts like white privilege, and instruct them on how to leverage their own advantages to be allies and support those who may not share the same privileges.

8. Empower Kids for Equality

Begin at a young age to instill in children the understanding that they possess the power to create a more equal and fair-minded world, thereby preventing the perpetuation of existing cycles of inequality.

9. Consistent Race & Identity Dialogue

Maintain regular and consistent conversations about race and identity with children, as continuous reinforcement is necessary to counteract the pervasive external messages they encounter daily.

10. Start Race Talks Before Nine

Initiate discussions about race and bias with children well before they reach nine years old, as their views on these topics tend to become fixed by that age.

11. Model Collaborative Learning

Model for your children that it’s acceptable not to know everything by admitting ‘I don’t know’ and then engaging in a collaborative search for answers together, utilizing available resources.

12. Model Inclusive Behavior

Be highly mindful of your own behavior, facial expressions, and offhand remarks, as children absorb these implicit messages and cues, which can shape their biases and fears towards people of different backgrounds.

13. Engage Kids’ Assumptions Non-Judgmentally

When children express assumptions or questions about race, engage with them non-judgmentally by asking ‘why’ they think that way, creating a safe space where no topic is taboo and they feel comfortable asking anything.

14. Promote Diverse Interactions

Actively create opportunities for children to interact with peers from diverse backgrounds and cultures, allowing them to see that people of all skin colors engage in everyday activities, thereby breaking down stereotypes.

15. Teach Age-Appropriate Allyship

Teach children age-appropriate ways to be an ally, such as reporting observed bullying to an adult or offering support and empathy to a child who appears lonely or isolated due to their skin color.

16. Involve Kids in Social Activism

Involve children in age-appropriate social activism, teaching them that they can create change by discussing what to do when witnessing injustice, and encouraging activities like fundraising for charities to build social consciousness.

17. Practice Anti-Racism Scenarios

Engage children in scenario-based activities to teach them how to respond to racism, racial bullying, or prejudice, including who to talk to and how to be an effective ally for others at school.

18. Teach Comprehensive Global History

Provide children with a comprehensive understanding of global history, including the origins of oppression and imperial histories, beyond what is typically taught in schools, to help them grasp the roots of inequality.

19. Counter External Pressures with Dialogue

Engage in honest and open conversations at home about the divisive opinions and radicalizing content children encounter online and in the outside world, to help them counter these pressures.

20. Discuss Observed Unfairness Openly

Encourage children to acknowledge and understand instances of unfair treatment based on skin color, fostering an open home environment where they feel comfortable discussing these observations without awkwardness.

21. Analyze Kids’ Skin Color Comments

When children make comments about skin color, such as expressing a preference for lighter skin, analyze these remarks for underlying biases rather than dismissing them, as they can indicate developing prejudices that need to be addressed.

22. Address Internalized Appearance Bias

Address children’s internalized biases about their appearance, such as preferring a different hair or skin color, immediately and consistently to help them take pride in who they are and prevent future body image issues.

23. Support Mixed-Heritage Identity

Actively engage mixed-heritage children in conversations about their identity to help them navigate complex perceptions and take pride in their ‘mixedness’ rather than feeling compelled to choose one side of their heritage.

24. Address Intra-Community Racism

Actively address specific forms of racism and bias that manifest within one’s own community, such as colorism or casteism in South Asian communities, recognizing that these issues require targeted understanding and intervention.

25. Promote Diverse Role Models

Actively promote positive representation and role models from diverse backgrounds, as individuals who proudly embrace their identity can significantly counter negative stereotypes and reduce prejudice within society.

26. Learn Race Terminology

Parents should actively learn and understand the correct terminology and vocabulary related to race and bias, enabling them to confidently and accurately discuss these sensitive topics with their children.

27. Engage in Open Dialogue

Actively participate in open and honest conversations about challenging topics like discrimination, as this dialogue is essential for initiating and achieving meaningful change.

28. Voice Concerns to Empower Others

Use your platform or position to voice concerns about discrimination, as this can empower less established individuals to recognize and feel justified in questioning similar experiences.

29. Address Bias Calmly, Factually

When addressing perceived discrimination or unfairness, process your emotions first, then communicate calmly and rationally, sticking to facts to achieve a more impactful and positive resolution.

30. Strive for Undeniable Excellence

Focus on making your work as excellent as possible, aiming to create such undeniable value that it becomes impossible for others to ignore or discriminate against your contributions.

31. Avoid External Validation

Do not base your self-worth solely on the opinions of others, as this external validation can be toxic and lead to a sense of emptiness.

32. Recognize Parents’ Emotional Burden

Acknowledge the emotional exhaustion and anxiety experienced by parents of color, who constantly worry about their children being treated differently or facing discrimination.

33. Acknowledge Minority Pressure

Understand that people of color often feel compelled to work significantly harder and suppress vulnerability to prove themselves, due to the perception of limited space and opportunity.

34. Understand Bias and its Forms

Educate yourself on what bias is, including its individual, interpersonal, and systemic forms, to better understand how it manifests as prejudice and discrimination, especially regarding race.

35. Teach Nuance of Skin Color

Educate children on the nuance that skin color does not predetermine individual behavior or guarantee uniform treatment, helping them avoid overgeneralizations and simplistic victim/oppressor narratives.

36. Use Factual, Non-Labeling Language

Adopt descriptive and factual language, such as ‘people with white skin’ instead of ‘white people,’ to avoid labeling and promote a more inclusive and less categorizing way of speaking about individuals.

37. Understand Unequal Opportunities

Actively seek to understand the specific obstacles and reasons why some people do not have the same opportunities, as this understanding is crucial for effectively addressing inequalities and fostering fair-mindedness.

38. Acknowledge Bias, Act Without Guilt

Acknowledge the existence of various forms of bias, such as sexism, without internalizing personal guilt, and instead focus on what individual actions can be taken to prevent its continuation.

39. Embrace Discomfort for Change

Embrace and sit with discomfort, as it is a necessary catalyst for creating change, preventing complacency and the acceptance of an unjust status quo.

40. Approach Change Without Blame

When seeking to make change, particularly around sensitive topics, eliminate blame and judgment towards others’ knowledge gaps, as this approach fosters engagement and learning rather than defensiveness.

41. Cultivate Empathy & Open-mindedness

Take responsibility to engage with diverse views, continuously educate yourself, and cultivate open-mindedness, kindness, compassion, and empathy, as these are essential for countering bias and understanding others’ perspectives.

42. Value Self-Perception Over Opinions

Teach children to prioritize their internal feelings about their performance and self-worth, recognizing that external opinions are subjective and do not change who they are or how they feel about their own efforts.

43. Advocate for Diverse Representation

Actively advocate for increased representation of people from diverse backgrounds in all professional domains, as this helps dismantle existing power hierarchies and ensures a wider range of voices are heard and valued.

Difference exists, but that difference should not be the basis for inequality in the world.

Dr. Pragya Agarwal

Race might be a social construct, but its manifestation as racism is very real.

Dr. Pragya Agarwal

We can't show vulnerability, we can't show weakness, because we don't have the luxury to, we just don't have the luxury to.

Dr. Pragya Agarwal

It's not an Olympics. It's not a context. People have faced different oppressions, different framework of oppression, different structures of oppression based on their context.

Dr. Pragya Agarwal

We want equality. We want fair-mindedness. We want everybody to have the same opportunities no matter what. And I think for that, we have to hear why some people are not having the same opportunities or they might have certain obstacles. And unless we hear that, how do we address it?

Dr. Pragya Agarwal

Guiding Children to Understand Race and Promote Equality

Dr. Pragya Agarwal
  1. Unlearn your own biases and reflect on your stereotypes, as children pick up on implicit messages and facial expressions.
  2. Bring diverse books and media into your home, choosing those that actively shatter stereotypes rather than just tokenizing.
  3. Actively question any assumptions your children have without judgment or criticism, asking why they think that way to create a safe space for questions.
  4. Expose children to as many diverse groups as possible through clubs, societies, or interactions to help them see people from different backgrounds doing normal things.
  5. Teach children a global history that includes forms of oppression and imperial history, not just what's taught in schools, using museums and online resources.
  6. Help children understand that racism is not just a historical event but still happens, and empower them to create change through social activism or charitable giving.
  7. Discuss scenarios with older children about how to react to racism or racial bullying, who to talk to, and how to be a better ally.
99.9%
Percentage of similar genes shared by humans Highlights that race has no biological basis and there's less diversity in humans than fruit flies.
3 years old
Age at which children start believing fair skin is better Children of all backgrounds and ethnicities, influenced by media and societal perceptions of whiteness.
1
Number of non-white hosts in the top 50 UK podcasts (excluding Michelle Obama) Observed by the host, Dr. Rangan Chatterjee, highlighting a lack of diversity in podcast representation.