#052 New Omega-3, sulforaphane research, and more! [Kevin Rose Show]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick joins Kevin Rose to discuss health and longevity, covering topics like phospholipid DHA for brain health, metformin's effects, sulforaphane benefits, magnesium L-threonate, and the health advantages of sauna use.
Deep Dive Analysis
15 Topic Outline
Introduction to the Kevin Rose Show and Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Phospholipid DHA and Blood-Brain Barrier Transport
APOE4 Allele, Alzheimer's Risk, and DHA's Role
Dietary Sources and Supplement Forms of DHA
Metformin's Effects on Longevity and Exercise Adaptations
NAD+ Boosters, Fasting, and Senescent Cells
Sulforaphane: Benefits, Sources, and Supplementation
Sulforaphane's Impact on Glutathione and Detoxification
Concerns About Sulforaphane as a Goitrogen
Magnesium L-Threonate for Brain Health
Magnesium Deficiency and Insidious Damage
Sauna Benefits: Cardiovascular, Brain Health, and Exercise Mimicry
Sauna's Impact on Muscle Soreness, Growth Hormone, and Mood
FoundMyFitness Premium Membership and Personalized Health
Gene-Diet Interactions and Glucose Regulation
7 Key Concepts
DHA Lysophosphatidylcholine (DHA lysopc)
A specific phospholipid form of DHA that is transported across the blood-brain barrier via an active transporter called MFSD2A. This mechanism potentially bypasses defects in the blood-brain barrier caused by aging or the APOE4 allele, making it a preferred way to get DHA into the brain.
APOE4 Allele
A gene variant that significantly increases the risk for Alzheimer's disease. Individuals with one copy are about twofold more likely, and those with two copies are 10 to 15-fold more likely to develop Alzheimer's. It compromises the blood-brain barrier, affecting passive DHA transport.
Metformin
A drug that decreases liver glucose production, reduces gut glucose uptake, and improves insulin sensitivity. While it can extend lifespan in some animal models and reduce cancer incidence in type 2 diabetics, it has been shown to blunt many positive effects of exercise on cardiorespiratory fitness and muscle gain in healthy individuals.
Sulforaphane
A compound formed from glucoraphanin (found in cruciferous vegetables like broccoli sprouts) by the enzyme myrosinase. It has about 70% bioavailability when orally ingested and activates the NRF2 pathway, which regulates hundreds of genes involved in antioxidant systems and detoxification.
NRF2 Pathway
A master regulator gene pathway activated by sulforaphane. When active, it binds to specific DNA sequences (antioxidant response elements) in numerous genes, either turning them on or off. This pathway is crucial for increasing phase two detoxification enzymes and decreasing phase one biotransformation enzymes, which detoxify carcinogens.
Goitrogen
A substance that can disrupt the production of thyroid hormones, particularly for people who are iodine deficient or have hypothyroidism. While there has been concern that sulforaphane might act as a goitrogen, clinical and long-term animal studies have shown no negative effects on thyroid hormones in healthy or iodine-deficient individuals.
Heat Shock Proteins
Proteins induced by heat stress (like sauna use), cold, or sulforaphane. They are one of the most protective adaptive responses, shown to protect against muscle atrophy and various diseases linked to aggregated proteins like atherosclerosis, Parkinson's, and Alzheimer's. Their activation can remain for about 48 hours.
11 Questions Answered
Phospholipid DHA, especially DHA lysophosphatidylcholine, uses a specialized active transport system (MFSD2A) to cross the blood-brain barrier, potentially bypassing age-related or APOE4-induced impairments in passive diffusion.
The APOE4 allele increases Alzheimer's risk by 2 to 15-fold and compromises the blood-brain barrier, making the passive diffusion of free DHA less effective. This highlights the importance of alternative transport mechanisms like DHA lysopc.
Fish roe (salmon, herring, pollock, flying fish) and krill oil contain DHA in phospholipid form, which is more efficiently metabolized into the brain-transportable DHA lysopc. While fish oil supplements in triglyceride form can also contribute, phospholipid forms offer more 'bang for your buck'.
While metformin has shown variable lifespan effects in animals and cancer reduction in type 2 diabetics, multiple randomized controlled trials in healthy adults show it blunts many positive effects of exercise, such as cardiorespiratory fitness and muscle mass gains.
Sulforaphane increases glutathione levels in plasma and the brain, acting as a major endogenous antioxidant. It also decreases oxidative DNA damage, lowers oxidized LDL and triglycerides, and helps excrete harmful carcinogens like benzene and acrolein by activating the NRF2 pathway.
While animal studies showed magnesium L-threonate could cross the blood-brain barrier and improve cognitive function, a human clinical study showed only a meager increase in plasma magnesium, no change in red blood cell magnesium, and most was excreted, with questionable statistical significance for cognitive improvements.
Magnesium deficiency is often insidious, as the body pulls magnesium from muscle and bones to maintain plasma levels. Symptoms like low energy can occur, but critical roles in DNA repair mean long-term inadequacy contributes to age-related diseases without immediate, obvious clinical signs.
Sauna use raises core body temperature, increases heart rate (up to 150 bpm), and redistributes blood flow, mimicking moderate-intensity aerobic exercise. Frequent sauna bathing is linked to significantly lower risks of fatal heart disease, stroke, sudden cardiac death, Alzheimer's, and dementia.
Some studies involving sauna followed by cold water exposure (a common Finnish practice) still showed benefits on mitochondrial function and other parameters, suggesting that alternating hot and cold may not negate the positive effects of sauna.
Sauna use can reduce delayed onset muscle soreness, improve muscle strength after high-intensity training, and prevent muscle atrophy by activating heat shock proteins and increasing growth hormone. It also significantly improves mood and can alleviate depressive symptoms.
Genetic predispositions can influence how individuals metabolize carbohydrates and regulate blood glucose. For example, specific gene variants can lead to higher fasting blood glucose levels without regular exercise, highlighting the importance of personalized dietary and exercise strategies.
21 Actionable Insights
1. Prioritize Exercise Over Metformin
Choose regular exercise over metformin for preventing type 2 diabetes and delaying aging, as exercise has been shown to be more effective and metformin may blunt many of exercise’s positive effects on cardiorespiratory fitness and muscle gains.
2. Frequent Sauna Bathing Protocol
Engage in sauna bathing 4-7 times per week for at least 20 minutes at around 175°F to significantly lower risks of fatal heart disease, stroke, sudden cardiac death, Alzheimer’s, and dementia, as it mimics the cardiovascular benefits of moderate intensity aerobic exercise.
3. Consume Phospholipid DHA
Prioritize dietary sources of DHA in phospholipid form, such as fish roe (38-75% phospholipid DHA) or krill oil (35% phospholipid DHA), because this form is more efficiently transported across the blood-brain barrier via an active transporter, which is crucial for brain health and may bypass age-related or APOE4-related blood-brain barrier defects.
4. Consume Sulforaphane Regularly
Regularly ingest sulforaphane, found richly in broccoli sprouts (up to 100x more precursor than mature broccoli) or validated supplements like Prostaphane or Avmacol, to increase glutathione levels in the brain and plasma (a major antioxidant), reduce oxidative DNA damage by 30%, and excrete harmful carcinogens like benzene and acrolein by up to 60%.
5. Prioritize Dietary Magnesium
Aim for 300-400 milligrams of magnesium daily, primarily from dark leafy greens and other magnesium-rich foods, as a majority of the population is deficient, and it’s critical for DNA repair, ATP production, and preventing insidious damage that accumulates over decades and contributes to diseases of aging.
6. Try Fasted Exercise for Glucose
Perform exercise in a fasted state to significantly improve both fasting and postprandial blood glucose regulation, as this practice has been shown to lead to better glucose levels.
7. Eat Protein Before Carbohydrates
Consume a high amount of protein before eating carbohydrates to help regulate and lower the postprandial glucose response, as this dietary sequencing has been shown to be effective in clinical trials.
8. Consider Prolonged Fasting
Explore prolonged fasting, starting with 48-hour fasts and potentially working up to 5-day fasts, as animal research suggests it can activate stem cells, kill off damaged white blood cells, and induce organ shrinking and regrowth, leading to significant longevity benefits.
9. Use Sauna Post-Workout
Incorporate sauna bathing after high-intensity training to reduce delayed onset muscle soreness, improve muscle strength, and prevent muscle atrophy by up to 40%, likely due to the activation of heat shock proteins and growth hormone.
10. Combine Sauna and Cold Exposure
Integrate cold showers or cold water immersion between sauna sessions, a common Finnish practice, as studies indicate this protocol still provides benefits for mitochondrial function and other health parameters.
11. Increase Overall Marine Omega-3s
Increase your overall intake of marine omega-3 fatty acids from sources like fish and fish oil supplements, as this can lead to the production of DHA lysophosphatidylcholine, a form of DHA that actively crosses the blood-brain barrier.
12. Use Genetic Reporting for Health
Utilize genetic reporting services, such as those offered by FoundMyFitness, by uploading your DNA data to gain personalized insights into gene-diet interactions and predispositions, which can help explain individual health responses and guide personalized medicine.
13. Check Fish Oil for Rancidity
Before consuming fish oil supplements, open a pill to smell or taste it, as rancidity can be masked by flavors like lemon or strawberry and indicates a lower quality product.
14. Mask Salmon Roe Taste
If you find salmon roe unpalatable, try mixing it with seaweed, avocado, lemon, ginger, or a creamy garlic herb cheese (like Bourshin) to mask its taste, making it easier to consume this beneficial source of phospholipid DHA.
15. Consider Sulforaphane Every Few Days
While daily intake is common, the NRF2 pathway activation from sulforaphane can last a couple of days in animals, suggesting that taking it every few days might still be effective.
16. Test Thyroid if Concerned
If you have hypothyroidism or iodine deficiency and are concerned about sulforaphane’s potential goitrogenic effects, perform a baseline thyroid test and retest after a month of consumption to monitor any changes, although scientific data suggests it’s generally not an issue for healthy individuals.
17. Try Pescatarian Diet with Blood Work
Experiment with a mostly pescatarian diet for a month and get your blood work checked before and after to observe its specific effects on your personal health markers.
18. Cut Out Alcohol Before Travel
Abstain from alcohol for a few weeks before a trip and get your blood tested to see the impact on your health markers, especially if you plan to consume alcohol during the trip.
19. Rhonda’s Fish Oil Recommendation
Consider N-Pure 3 (Nordic Pure 3) fish oil, a highly purified DHA supplement that Rhonda personally takes at a dose of three grams (six pills) daily, and which she finds to be of high quality and non-rancid.
20. Validated Sulforaphane Supplements
If not consuming broccoli sprouts, consider clinically validated sulforaphane supplements like Avmacol (approx. 3.5mg sulforaphane per tablet, 2 tablets recommended) or Prostaphane (approx. 10mg sulforaphane per tablet, available via online pharmacies from France), which Rhonda uses for convenience.
21. Apple Watch in Sauna Tip
To prevent your Apple Watch from overheating in the sauna, place your hand over the face of the watch; this keeps it cool enough to continue functioning and allows you to monitor your heart rate.
6 Key Quotes
I always thought that people for a while were calling dementia or Alzheimer's disease potentially type 3 diabetes. I'm sure you've heard it called that before. I always thought too much glucose in the body would be a bad thing. But here you're saying the brain getting a lack of glucose is a bad thing.
Kevin Rose
The people with type two diabetes that were taking metformin lived on average around 15% longer than the age match controls without type two diabetes. Like that's what got my interest. That's what I was like. That's the, that's the study that really piqued my interest. I was like, okay, what's going on, right?
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
My fridge looked like a little mini farm. Like it was like farm built up in my fridge. It was like there was sprouts everywhere and some of them were going bad.
Kevin Rose
I don't have any ties to this fish oil company. I don't get any kickbacks. I'm not affiliated with him, but he is a friend of mine.
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
I think exercise is better than metformin for preventing type 2 diabetes. That's been shown treating type 2 diabetes, but also I think it's better than metformin in delaying aging. I think that you're better off doing exercise than taking a metformin pill.
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Something is coming out because Daria was like, what the hell? Like there's like a stain of like this, like stuff. I'm like, I'm like, I'm sorry. It's like the only thing I changed was the sulforaphane. Wow. It's really, really crazy.
Kevin Rose