What Pets Actually Want & Need | Dr. Karolina Westlund

Episode 226 Apr 28, 2025 Episode Page ↗
Overview

Dr. Karolina Westlund, a professor of ethology, discusses optimizing pet health and human-animal relationships. She covers interpreting animal body language, breed-specific needs, and practical protocols for dogs, cats, and birds, emphasizing understanding their natural drives.

At a Glance
24 Insights
2h 6m Duration
18 Topics
10 Concepts

Deep Dive Analysis

Understanding Horses as Prey and Herd Animals

Dog Breeds and the Predatory Sequence of Wolves

Core Affect Space and Petting Consent for Animals

Ethological Definition of Dominance and Social Roles

Interpreting Dog Body Language and Facial Expressions

Understanding Play Behavior in Dogs: The MARS Framework

Fairness, Social Groups, and Anthropomorphism vs. Anthropodenial

Cat Social Needs, Hunting Behavior, and Early Socialization

Cat Scent Marking and Optimal Litter Box Placement

Dog Communication Through Scent: 'Pee Mail'

The Evolution and Conservation Role of Zoos

Stalking Behavior and Natural Expression in Birds

Enhancing Dog Well-being with Nose Work and Challenging Feeding

Choosing a Dog for Your Lifestyle and Introducing Cats

Species Recognition, Inbreeding Avoidance, and Imprinting

Attachment Bonds vs. Imprinting: Weaning Age in Dogs

The Complexities and Alternatives of Spaying and Neutering

Reflections on Humans as an Animal Species and Cultural Learning

Core Affect Space

A model for conceptualizing emotions with two axes: valence (how pleasant or unpleasant something is) and arousal (the intensity of the emotion). It helps understand how to move animals into desired emotional states, such as low arousal and pleasantness (relaxed and safe).

Predatory Sequence

The natural hunting behaviors observed in wolves, typically including orienting, eyeing, stalking, chasing, grabbing, killing, dissecting, and eating. Different dog breeds have been selectively bred to emphasize or suppress specific parts of this sequence.

Consent Test for Petting

A method to determine if an animal enjoys tactile interaction by offering touch for a few seconds, then removing the hand to observe if the animal reinitiates contact or moves away. This ensures the interaction is pleasurable for the animal.

Polyvagal Theory & Co-regulation

A theory suggesting that the vagus nerve influences emotional states and social engagement. Co-regulation implies that a calm and relaxed human can subtly transmit these cues to animals, helping them relax and feel safe.

Ethological Dominance

In ethology, dominance is defined as priority of access to resources within a stable social group, which reduces conflict and aggression. It differs from the sociological definition often misapplied to animal-human interactions.

MARS Framework for Play

An acronym (Meta signals, Activity shifts, Role reversals, Self-handicap) used to identify and understand true play behavior in animals. Meta signals (like a play bow) indicate intent to play, activity shifts show varied behaviors, role reversals ensure both participants 'win,' and self-handicap allows larger/stronger animals to adjust their vigor.

Anthropomorphism vs. Anthropodenial

Anthropomorphism is attributing human characteristics or emotions to animals. Anthropodenial, a term coined by Franz de Waal, is the denial of commonalities between humans and other animal species, often stemming from an overcorrection to avoid anthropomorphism.

Filial Imprinting

A rapid learning process, typically occurring early in life, where an animal forms an attachment to the first moving object it sees, often its parent, and subsequently follows that individual. Konrad Lorenz's work with geese is a classic example.

Sexual Imprinting

A learning process, often occurring during a critical period in early development, where an individual learns the characteristics of a desirable mate based on the individuals it was raised with. This can lead to courting individuals of the 'wrong' species if raised by them.

Attachment Bonds (Secure/Insecure)

A deeper, longer-term emotional connection that develops between a caregiver and offspring, involving multiple senses. Unlike imprinting, attachment can be secure (reliable response to needs, better self-regulation) or insecure (clingy, avoidant, or disorganized responses to separation/reunion).

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How do horses experience the world?

As prey and herd animals, horses are highly vigilant with a wide visual field, constantly paying attention to their surroundings. Their natural behaviors involve foraging up to 16 hours a day and living in stable social groups.

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How should interaction with dogs differ based on breed?

Different dog breeds were selectively bred for specific parts of the wolf's predatory sequence (e.g., sniffing, pointing, chasing, grabbing, killing, or just eating). Understanding a dog's genetic 'backpack' and its bred purpose helps provide appropriate outlets for their natural drives.

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How can humans help animals feel calm and safe?

By reducing negative emotional states (fear, aggression, boredom), providing stimulating environments, and offering desired tactile stimulation (like slow, gentle petting) in a calm manner, humans can help animals achieve a low-arousal, pleasant emotional state.

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What is the ethological definition of dominance in animals?

Ethological dominance refers to priority of access to resources within a stable social group, which reduces conflict and aggression. It is not about one individual imposing on another, but a system that helps maintain group cohesion.

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How can humans interpret a dog's tail wagging?

While a full sweep often indicates happiness, a predominant left wag (from the dog's perspective) tends to be associated with negative emotional states, and a right wag with positive ones. The speed and stiffness of the wag also communicate different emotional states.

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Do dogs have empathy?

Yes, it is believed that dogs, as social animals living in cohesive groups, are good at reading each other's emotional states and can attempt to buffer negative emotions, which is consistent with an evolutionary perspective.

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Why do cats bring prey home, and is it a 'gift'?

Cats bring their prey to a place where they feel safe, not necessarily as a gift to their human. As solitary hunters, they often retain the full hunting sequence and may lose interest in prey once it stops moving.

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What is 'pee mail' for dogs?

'Pee mail' refers to the communication dogs engage in through urine. The scent in urine provides other dogs with information about gender, reproductive state, and potentially emotional or mental states, acting as a form of social media for them.

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What is the purpose of zoos from an ethological perspective?

Modern zoos aim for conservation (in-situ and ex-situ) and public education, fostering an interest in animals. However, some species, like wide-ranging carnivores (e.g., polar bears), are very difficult to keep optimally in captivity due to their extensive natural behaviors.

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Why do animals engage in destructive behaviors like ripping things apart?

Animals have innate behavioral repertoires, such as foraging or disemboweling prey, that they need to express. If these behaviors are not given appropriate outlets (e.g., through puzzle feeders or specific play), they may be redirected into destructive actions.

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What is the difference between imprinting and attachment bonds in animals?

Imprinting is a rapid, often visual, learning process occurring within a short critical period (e.g., minutes/hours) where an animal learns who to follow or mate with. Attachment bonds, like those between a caregiver and offspring, take longer to develop, involve more senses, and can result in secure or insecure relationships.

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Is early weaning (e.g., 8 weeks) too soon for puppies?

From an ethological perspective, 8 weeks is considered too early for puppies to be separated from their mothers. Longer periods with the mother (e.g., up to 14 weeks for cats) allow animals to learn species-typical behaviors and develop secure attachment bonds, which aid in self-regulation and coping with new environments.

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What are the pros and cons of spaying/neutering pets?

While neutering helps control pet overpopulation, it's a cultural practice with varying regulations globally. Removing gonads eliminates the activating effects of hormones, which can lead to increased fear, reactivity, aggression, and noise sensitivity in some animals, particularly males, depending on age and breed. Alternatives like vasectomy or chemical castration exist to preserve hormonal benefits while preventing reproduction.

1. Foster Secure Pet Attachment

Foster secure attachment in pets, as this helps them learn self-regulation, making them better able to cope with new or stressful exposures without becoming overly anxious or fearful.

2. Avoid Early Puppy Weaning

Avoid weaning puppies too early (e.g., before 8 weeks), as this may predispose them to insecure attachment and hinder their ability to self-regulate later in life.

3. Socialize Kittens Early

To foster highly social cats, handle young kittens (2-8 weeks old) for at least an hour a day, engaging in interaction and play; less than 15 minutes a day will result in more aloof but not fearful cats.

4. Implement Dog Nose Work

Engage dogs in “nose work” (finding specific scents in an area) to promote their natural sniffing behavior, as it helps regulate arousal, calming anxious dogs and energizing depressed ones, leading to positive emotional states.

5. Understand Dog Breed Drives

Understand your dog’s breed-specific predatory sequence behaviors (e.g., sniffing, pointing, chasing, grabbing, killing, eating) and provide outlets for these innate drives to offer them a good life.

6. Allow Natural Foraging Behaviors

Provide opportunities for pets to express their natural food-getting behaviors, rather than simply serving food on a plate, as suppressing these drives can lead to problem behaviors.

7. Use Food Puzzles & Scatter Feeding

Instead of serving food in a bowl, use scatter feeding or food puzzles (like snuffle mats) to make animals work for their food, extending feeding time and engaging their natural foraging behaviors.

Perform a “consent test” before petting: scratch for a few seconds in a preferred spot, then remove your hand and observe if the animal reinitiates contact or moves away, to ensure they appreciate the interaction.

9. Co-regulate Pet Calmness

When interacting with pets, maintain a calm and relaxed emotional state yourself, as this sends subtle cues that can co-regulate and help relax the animal.

10. Avoid Fast Patting

Avoid fast patting or quick petting, especially with horses, as many animals find this aversive and may work to avoid it, even if humans use it as a reward.

11. Observe Petting Preferences

Pay attention to individual animals’ preferences for petting locations; they may even move to show you which body part they want scratched once they understand this communication.

12. Gradual Pet Introductions

When introducing new pets (especially cats), do so gradually: start by exchanging scents, then allow them to hear, then see, and finally allow physical contact, to reduce aggression risk.

13. Feed Multiple Cats Separately

If you have multiple cats, feed them in separate locations to reduce heightened arousal and conflict, as cats are solitary hunters and prefer to eat alone.

14. Separate Cat Food & Litter

Do not place a cat’s litter box next to its food, as cats naturally avoid eliminating close to where they eat, and this setup can lead to problems.

15. Address Cat Urination Issues

If an indoor cat urinates outside the litter box, map the locations: if at windows or doors, it may be territorial marking; if elsewhere, it could indicate pain or litter box aversion.

16. Avoid Hugging Animals

Avoid hugging animals you like, especially new ones, as many animals perceive this primate behavior as restraint and find it scary.

17. Rethink Dog Dominance Training

Reframe dog training away from human-dog dominance concepts (e.g., dog walking behind you) and instead focus on learning systems that influence behavior.

18. Consider Neutering Alternatives

Discuss alternatives like vasectomies or chemical castration with a veterinarian, and evaluate the procedure’s timing based on breed, gender, and age, due to potential behavioral and health impacts.

19. Interpret Dog Tail Wags

Observe the direction of a dog’s predominant tail wag: a wag to the dog’s left side is associated with negative emotional states, while a wag to the dog’s right side is associated with positive emotional states.

20. Interpret Cat Eye Direction

Observe which eye a cat uses to look at a stimulus: left eye forward often indicates fear, while right eye forward often indicates attraction.

21. Provide Breed-Specific Toys

Provide toys or objects that allow dogs to express their breed-specific predatory drives, such as giving poodles something to “rip apart” (post-kill ripping behavior).

22. Reinforce Early Predatory Stages

For dogs that tend to chase wildlife, train them to stay in the early parts of the predatory sequence (sniffing, pointing, eyeing) and reinforce these behaviors to prevent unwanted chasing.

23. Choose Dog Breed for Lifestyle

Carefully consider your lifestyle (e.g., city apartment vs. farm) and choose a dog breed that is best suited to adapt to that specific environment and activity level.

24. Optimize Horse Living Conditions

Avoid early weaning and single housing for horses, and provide opportunities for prolonged foraging (up to 16 hours a day) to prevent problem behavior and better match their natural drives.

I think that we as humans, we tend to not really understand how different animal species can be from ourselves in how they perceive the world and what's important to them.

Dr. Karolina Westlund

I think that we carry a lot of – and actually, we haven't mentioned this, I think, but I have very little practical experience about dogs, with dogs. I haven't lived with dogs. I haven't trained dogs. But many of my students train dogs and I help them. But that also means that I don't carry any of these sort of assumptions that you're supposed to have your dog behind you or beside you. But if you don't – which means that I can look at that type of statement and go, really?

Dr. Karolina Westlund

I think that we often don't give animals enough credit.

Dr. Karolina Westlund

I think that we humans are also an animal species and that we tend to sort of put ourselves on a pedestal and thinking that we are one and then animals are like this – the other as if it were homogeneous, which is – it really isn't.

Dr. Karolina Westlund

I think that we've fallen into, we've so avoided this topic of anthropomorphism, we've been so afraid of it, that we've fallen into the other trap, which is sort of denying that they have anything to do with us.

Dr. Karolina Westlund

We feed them on a plate. We're thinking like, we think that we're doing them a service, like here's your food on the plate. You don't have to do anything. But they come equipped to actually show their food-getting repertoire of behaviors.

Dr. Karolina Westlund

I think that you need to pay a lot of attention to the type of life that you're going to offer, whether it's, you know, living in an apartment in a busy city or whether it's, you know, on a farm somewhere, which breed of dog is going to adapt best to that lifestyle.

Dr. Karolina Westlund

I think that we're always having to question our assumptions.

Dr. Karolina Westlund

Consent Test for Petting

Dr. Karolina Westlund
  1. Offer your hand and scratch the animal for a few seconds in a spot they typically enjoy (e.g., neck or upper chest for dogs, avoiding the top of the head).
  2. Remove your hand.
  3. Observe if the animal reinitiates contact or moves away, indicating whether they enjoy the interaction.

Gradual Introduction of New Cats

Dr. Karolina Westlund
  1. Keep the new and existing cats in separate rooms.
  2. Rub each cat with a separate towel to collect their scent.
  3. Exchange the scented towels between the rooms to allow them to gradually get used to each other's scent.
  4. Gradually incorporate other sensory modalities, allowing them to hear each other, then see each other (e.g., through a screen).
  5. Finally, allow for tactile, physical contact, reducing the risk of aggression.

Promoting Natural Foraging Behavior in Dogs

Dr. Karolina Westlund
  1. Rather than serving food in a bowl, use methods that require the dog to work for their food.
  2. Try scatter feeding, where food is spread out for the dog to find.
  3. Use snuffle mats or puzzle feeders to hide food, increasing the time and effort required for consumption.

Neutering Alternatives to Preserve Hormonal Health

Dr. Karolina Westlund
  1. Vasectomy (for males): Snip the connection to prevent reproduction without removing testicles, allowing continued hormone production.
  2. Tubal Ligation (for females): Tie the fallopian tubes to prevent reproduction while preserving ovaries and hormone production.
  3. Chemical Castration: A reversible method that temporarily changes hormonal status, allowing observation of behavioral effects before permanent procedures.
Up to 16 hours a day
Horse foraging duration in the wild Horses in captivity are often fed in ways that promote quick eating, reducing this natural behavior.
At least an hour a day
Kitten handling for social development Between 2 and 8 weeks of age, handling kittens for this duration can lead to very social adults.
Less than 15 minutes a day
Kitten handling for aloof temperament Between 2 and 8 weeks of age, this minimal handling can result in cats that are not fearful but more aloof as adults.
Up to 14 weeks
Recommended cat weaning age for social development Spending this much time with their mother helps kittens learn how to be a cat and reduces emotional disturbance from separation.
Approximately 15 years old
Age of the dog sport 'nose work' A relatively new dog sport with promising effects on arousal regulation and positive emotional states.
50 milligrams per week
Testosterone dosage administered to neutered bulldog Administered by Andrew Huberman to his neutered bulldog to improve vigor and reduce joint pain in old age.